The AdopTwins

I Like You, Try On My Wig

• Meg Cee & Billy Baraw • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Sometimes in a room full of people in when you can feel most alone. Sometimes for adoptees you'll take what you can get for connection.

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Meg:

Hi, this is Meg.

Billy:

And this is Billy.

Meg:

And we are.

Billy:

The Adopt Twins. And th

Meg:

Welcome to a podcast from two adoptees who are navigating life loss, moving on, and growing up.

Billy:

For our adopted friends we hope to bring you a familiar point of view and for our friends who aren't welcome to the complicated jungle of how we get on. Yeah, what do you want to talk about? Loneliness, because it's a universal thing, it i

Meg:

It

Billy:

Walways alone in our thoughts, in our brains, no matter what you know,

Meg:

I don't really feel like I'm alone in my brain because there's just so much going on all the time in there.

Billy:

Really Like what kind of stuff?

Meg:

Like what am I doing with my life? What should I have for dinner? Why do my parents hate me? Why did my parents leave me behind the marketplace? Who are my parents? What should I do this weekend? Why can't I be with my child all of the time? Why am I not in Italy right now? What should I paint my toenails next? Why did I quit my job? Why does my boss hate me? Well, why can't I do this? Why can't I do that? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All sorts of things, all sorts of things. Never alone, never alone.

Billy:

That's good. Do you think, if all of those just stop being prevalent in your mind's chatter, that it would be better or worse for your mental well-being?

Meg:

I think that it would depend on why it went away. Is it because I got answers to the questions?

Billy:

Yeah, you got answers to every question.

Meg:

Oh, I got answers to all the questions.

Billy:

And you're satisfied too. It's not like they all of a sudden spin out to a thousand other questions.

Meg:

Yeah, I think it would be better.

Billy:

That's good, yeah, but then you'd be alone.

Meg:

I would. It would be alone.

Billy:

Mm-hmm.

Meg:

Yes, but I don't really like being with people anyways so.

Billy:

Shout out to your kid

Meg:

I mean he's fine because he's a part of me.

Billy:

So did you always not like being around people? Was there a time when you gave people more of a chance and they just kept letting you down?

Meg:

Maybe, but I don't really remember that time. I remember being like 12 years old and telling my mother that people were idiotic imbeciles. And my mother said no, they're not, not all people. And I said see, that's the thing. The rule is that they are. And then there's exceptions to the rule. And she said oh well, I think you need to give more people the benefit of the doubt. And I said no, no, I don't. So I don't really know when. I may have felt differently. I'm sure I probably did at some point, but I think it was probably before I spent those couple years on the street as an infant.

Billy:

It's hard to come back from that.

Meg:

Yes, yeah, it's really hard.

Billy:

I felt you echo the sentiment of a feeling I've had regionally when it comes to the Northeast, particularly like certain parts of the Northeast like Connecticut and a certain part of Western Massachusetts, where it's an amazing moment when you find a good one right.

Billy:

It's somebody who is empathetic, somebody who is fun, somebody who can carry a conversation without immediately turning it all back on them, somebody that listens and all like the qualities you want to have, and somebody who can help abate the loneliness of this horrible existence. And then the rest of the country. There's like a bit of a ratio switch I've found where the people who suck can be a lot less in comparison to the people who are people that want in your life or I've wanted in my life. But it's interesting if the experience is that you are in that one particular part and surrounding where that becomes the reality, such as if you're living in Connecticut, it's like no, anybody I've talked to who's moved away from Connecticut, they're like, yeah, there's that universal thing of like no, most people kind of suck. You can't trust those.

Billy:

Let me tell you a thousand stories about people that aren't good and let me tell you about like a couple of bright spots that maybe in the universe on another planet, there's like a contingent of those types of people. It's my finding. I was lucky enough to have experiences in the Navy and have community before moving to Connecticut. When I was having the thoughts of, wow, most people suck. It was wow, most people suck here. I've always been a very social person who needs people in order to charge my battery. Stimulating conversation in order to make me feel recharged.

Meg:

I feel I need to do by myself.

Meg:

And if I had to choose between no conversation and just flat out dumb conversation, I would choose no conversation.

Billy:

What is your definition of dumb conversation?

Meg:

That was very ableist of me to say I shouldn't have said that first off. So I apologize.

Billy:

Apology accepted.

Meg:

But as far as the less than ideal conversation would be people who just want to spend the time with just idle gossip, talk that's just surrounded on celebrities for the entire time, celebrities for the entire time. That talk that is just complaints about things that are going on without wanting to come to solutions and ways to fix it.

Meg:

That is what I consider less than ideal conversation. I prefer a conversation where perhaps there are things that aren't great, so okay, let's discuss those things, but then let's find out how we can find solutions to those things or what we can do to help make those things better, whether it's in our own personal lives or for others. And I like conversations. Okay, we want to talk about entertainment type stuff? Okay, but let's talk about a film we saw or a television show or a book we read and break it down and discuss what was good about it, what could have been better about it, how that affects society in a way, things like that. It's just this idle chatter that has just become so prevalent in the world today. I am good being alone.

Billy:

I agree I have felt more alone when I've been surrounded by that idle chatter.

Meg:

What the heck was that? Is God mad are you? Are you being held against your will right now?

Billy:

You know, Chicago, things get crazy over here.

Meg:

I do, but you can't always believe it. I saw this news thing about this guy, who was apparently a celebrity, who was beat up, and that ended up not being true dish.

Billy:

Tell me all about the celebrity gossip. Spill the tea.

Meg:

Thank you for going there with me.

Billy:

Welcome.

Billy:

Oh wow, there's a massive thunderstorm that's about to

Meg:

That was thunder??

Billy:

Yeah, that was. I can't describe how sunny it is to you right now. I look south, sunny with some clouds. I look north, sunny, with some clouds, but it sounded like a lightning strike just happened two blocks away. Oh my God, I mean I have headphones on and it still jolted me a little bit. But looking at the radar, it's one of those storms that is just sort of forming out of nowhere and it's a biggin', oh goodness. So we might have some other interruptions from the Almighty while we talk about how much we don't like idle gossip.

Meg:

I would think he'd be on our side with that apparently not.

Billy:

You shall talk about the Kardashians. It is why I have created them.

Meg:

a Maybe was was a a a was. that that that that that that that god is a woman after all.

Meg:

Maybe a was very bad of me to say, but it's just been so cemented in my head from all of the things I've heard from the media, from people, that those kinds of things just come out of my mouth.

Billy:

Oh yeah, no, absolutely, they're working on it though. They're working on it, though, they're working on it. But going back to, like, the loneliness of wanting that and not having, not having that definitely the loneliest points in my life, because all I've wanted was I. I'm a fan of joy and I'm a fan of if there's some sadness that's going on, talking through it and figuring out, just figuring out a way of I don't know how to put it. But moving on to the next part, that gets you closer to the excitement of the little things of even just going out for a walk in the park and tossing a ball around Right, of the little things of even just going out for a walk in the park and tossing a ball around right, mm-hmm.

Billy:

And when it's a consistent barrage, like when I was in middle school and high school, I was somebody who was surrounding the self, to be honest, with people who had a consistent problem, because I needed to have conversation, but at the same time, I don't think people on the whole, or at least to the degree that I wanted in terms of quantity, liked me enough so I could consistently bounce from person to person, to person to person. So I would rest with people who had these monumental, devastating problems and every single day it was the same conversation and there was no movement and there was no amount of me attempting to help, whether with a passing haiku or phrase, or actually doing, studying on help. Trying to help the person would help, it would just be. I would just be a sounding board, right, and like that existence and I don't know if it's just as an adoptive person, but that existence was rough.

Meg:

Yeah, I had similar experiences where, for whatever reason, people seemed to feel like they could come to me but talk at me and dump all of their problems and their worries and their bad energy at me, day in and day out, and people that I wouldn't even necessarily consider good friends, people who I knew but didn't necessarily hang out with often, and then at one point I remember, with a few of them I just had to just cut them off completely because I emotionally couldn't handle it myself anymore. It's a big moment when you do that.

Billy:

Yeah, how'd they take it?

Meg:

I don't know.

Billy:

Did you just kind of say I can't do this anymore, or did you just stop responding?

Meg:

Just stopped responding.

Billy:

Nice.

Meg:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah some sort of connection, because they are also damaged and they feel that they can trust us enough to say their darkest secrets.

Billy:

I think we have, because we do have that feeling underlying everything. I I find myself making the I'm not say mistake, but it's in my nature to ask just a quick follow-up question and usually that opens the floodgates Like how are you doing? You know, I'm okay, having that desire to not be alone. For a while I guess it was good to have the attention of other people, to seem valuable and to seem like I'm actually here in this world for a reason and it's to help you. And then it kind of morphed into to help people like you.

Meg:

Yeah and I think that's a big part of it is that we at least it sounds like from what you're saying and from how I think the reason for myself and I don't know about other adoptees, but at least from the two of us that from us being adoptees, we've kind of always felt like we needed to prove our worth in a way. These people needed us in some way, even if it wasn't necessarily what we wanted in relationships with these people, but they needed us so we were happy to be needed.

Billy:

Yep, and we acquiesced to the role that they designated to us.

Meg:

Yeah.

Billy:

Yeah.

Meg:

Yeah.

Billy:

Because it was better than being alone. Yeah, truly, the last time I felt sort of truly alone was a. You ever work a job where just everybody doesn't like you? Oh, yeah, I've only had the good fortune of working that once, but it was a tour, I think. I think it was like yeah, it was a five-week tour that spanned the east coast over to texas up to chicago. It's about a team of four of us or five of us, and I don't know how we got on the wrong foot, but they well, I lost some equipment pretty early on, to be honest, for the tour.

Billy:

That was, pretty specifically, I was kind of, you know, a little forgetful and I also had my birthday on one of the days and I maybe gone out to a karaoke bar, stayed out till 4 am, tried to shower the stink off me for when we had to be at the place, we needed to be for 10 am and it didn't work, but these people did not like me and it felt bad. I first thought. My first thought was if people are feeling like this all the time, this is agony to have a consistency of. No matter who you turn to, you're not getting any support. It's also tough when it's at work, because it's your money, because you need to work. There's a breaking point that you reach when you're like I got to leave, right, it takes a while to get there. So there's a lot of enduring that loneliness.

Meg:

I feel like yeah, I've definitely felt that way at some jobs and even sometimes at school, and that's never easy. I purposely, I feel may have tried to start off on the wrong foot, to try to keep people away, to not let people get close, because I was so sick of being disappointed in people.

Billy:

What would be your tactic?

Meg:

There would be times, like in college in my freshman year, I spent pretty much no time on my floor. I pretty much didn't get to know any of the girls that lived in my wing and I really tried to just avoid them. And so they all became friends and got to know each other. And then there were some times where I had some difficult moments and I just ended up alone and that was difficult and, looking back, you know I did that to myself.

Billy:

Yeah, you made yourself an outcast.

Meg:

Yeah.

Billy:

And not because you didn't understand human dynamics, but because you wanted to protect yourself.

Meg:

Right. It's, I guess, because I understood them so well that I played them to work in the favor that I thought I had wanted, and it wasn't necessarily the best decision, I suppose.

Billy:

I mean it sounds like it sort of stemmed from a survival mechanism coming from being back in middle school, high school, maybe even grammar school, where people in school we can't trust. So just cut that out.

Meg:

And then one day I had a job on my first day. Some people were joking and I was like the only female that worked there and I said to the effect of if you don't shut up, I'll shank you. And they laughed and I was like you don't know me, you don't know if I'm kidding or not, and that kind of got us off on the wrong foot. I would have thought that was hilarious.

Meg:

They did until I said the second part. Then they got a little worried and then they were like, oh cool, yeah, I had different ways of doing it depending on the situation.

Billy:

Yeah.

Meg:

Because I am a chameleon.

Billy:

What if you had come across? You were like no, you don't know me, and somebody challenged you. You think you would have become. You were like no, you don't know me and somebody like challenged you. You think you would have become friends with them, as opposed to them slithering away. And would you have gone even farther?

Meg:

I probably would have gone even farther.

Billy:

Would you have stabbed somebody I?

Meg:

don't know. Okay, cool, this was a few months after I had gotten out of the place to rest for a week, so you know when you went to your spa. Yes, so not really sure, could have gone either way, I suppose.

Billy:

I'm glad we did not meet each other when we met each other, because otherwise I'd be dead right now. I would have been like oh yeah, here's a knife. What do you got in you? You think you can take things far? Oh, I'm adopted. It's a superpower. I'm going to out-uncomfortable you. You're going to see, You're going to get my blood on you and you're going to then be my friend.

Meg:

Yeah, if you're gonna see, you're gonna get my blood on you and you're gonna then be my friend. Yeah, if you're not dead oh, she's running away.

Billy:

It didn't work. We could have done a podcast together. Oh geez, that's so funny. But yeah, I know people get weird when you take it a little farther.

Meg:

Yeah.

Billy:

There was a friend of mine who he enjoyed observing people it's kind of his thing at parties. And he at that point in my life he sort of pegged me down and he said, billy, I like what you do, I like that you go into a place and you push everybody that you have a conversation with just past their comfort zone, for them to be off balance, but then you bring it back and then they don't know what's happening, but they don't necessarily hate it. It's a protective mechanism for me too, because then I can just say, if they're not about it, I can just say, well, they just don't get my sense of humor. And I'm protected because I'm the star of my own movie right now. So I don't have to work on anything, I don't have to worry about other people's feelings and safety and boundaries.

Meg:

Oh yeah, I always felt safe with you, though.

Billy:

Same. I mean, well, we started off with being in a situation that is literal danger, right, right, it can only be safer from there, right? But yeah, in all of our conversations, every time we hung out, every time we've randomly popped up in each other's space, it's always as if we're just picking up where we left off space.

Meg:

It's always as if we're just picking up where we where we left off. Yeah, oh, oh, but I did not, did not feel safe, but I was. I mean, I was with you, but not with you at that moment in the bathroom when we went to karaoke oh, with that crazy fucking person.

Billy:

Yes, yeah, over by yConn.

Meg:

Yes, did not feel safe.

Billy:

First time at that karaoke bar, I think, and I was like that person liked you. That person was like that is some exoticism right there. She could not stop looking at you, yeah, and you kept coming out and being. When you came out of that bathroom and you're like I'm going to be here now and I'm like, oh, OK, I think she asked me to try on her wig or something.

Meg:

Yeah, she did.

Billy:

Here. We thought it was just going to be a nice, nice day of karaoke. All you had to do was travel. What an hour to get to it. Totally, it's not like there's karaoke anywhere more in between, Like we had to go beyond where I was living.

Meg:

Yeah, it was an hour to you, and then.

Billy:

Yep Gosh.

Meg:

Oh gosh, ridiculous yeah, that was the only time I felt unsafe After the ballet.

Billy:

That's fair Englishman. Yeah, that was the only time I felt unsafe After the ballet. That's fair Englishman. Yeah, exactly, Gosh. I mean we were together on like the literal worst program I had ever been a part of, or especially having to manage that BlackBerry program.

Meg:

Oh, oh gosh.

Billy:

Where they were.

Meg:

You remember that oh, yeah, oh, I was alone on that because I did enough. I stayed with no, no, no, samsung, I'm sorry, samsung, I got moved to after the blackberry one. Yeah, and that's where I was alone because my co-manager never came to work.

Billy:

But yeah blackberry blackberry was a trip. I knew you were going through your stuff oh yeah but I was like equally like. I guess that like also kind of caught like compliments our friendship where both of us are going through equally stressful, crazy situations. Sonic, gotta go fast, gotta go, gotta go fast, gotta go fast. And just like showing up and seeing each other like chips in the night, being like is everything good? No, not over here either. Anyways, hey, could everybody stop getting in line for free falafel and go do your job.

Meg:

And we're literally just giving away free phones, just giving away free phones. Like who the heck gives away a free phone.

Billy:

Oh my God, it was so dumb. Hey, hang these up on trees, those red snowflake things. Yeah, you think New York's going to be okay with that? Yeah, all right, take those down. Hey guys, sorry to email you at 11 o'clock at night. What do we? Got 20 more days to go.

Meg:

And then it was SantaCon too.

Billy:

Oh yeah, santacon was happening. Oh gosh, oh my god. It looks like my window right now looks like a ship at sea, hurricane, like the rain is horizontal. You can barely see anything happening right now. What is happening? Oh gosh, oh gosh, don't blow away in a tornado but yeah, then afterwards it's like, well, that was crazy yeah yeah, yeah, but they for some reason, even though I had to go fast, had to go fast through that.

Meg:

They. They moved me to a manager on samsung.

Billy:

So god, it was the glory days before. The internet was really really good. They were just like did you show up? Great, you're a manager now. Now, let's charge over that line and into the brink we go.

Meg:

That was ridiculous because I had broken up with the guy in Gramercy Park so I had to find someplace to live real quick. So I ended up out in Bensonhurst and I had to be at downtown Manhattan for like 9am for a meeting. So I had gotten up at like about 6am to get there in time.

Billy:

Sure, it's hailing a lot right now, just checking in If I go to Oz in a few minutes, just know.

Meg:

No, please don't. Please don't. Make sure you pack like a balloon or something I don't know Look at you back or red shoes, something like that, I'm not sure. Uh-oh, did I lose you? Uh-oh, I am alone. I am all alone. All alone. One is the loneliest number. I really feel like zero's probably the loneliest, but is zero considered a number. I've been left all alone, all by myself. I wanna be all by myself. I'll never let go Jack. Maybe he's not coming back. Maybe this is the end, but it's fitting. I'll never let go Jack. Maybe he's not coming back. Maybe this is the end, but it's fitting that I ended up alone and I'm going to sign off. And if you were listening to this by yourself, you will now be alone.